gohlip
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:47 pm

Updating Solus - Software Center

Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:17 am

"Discombobulating Update Matrix"?

That's Disquieting and Disconcerting.
Is this a Confabulation? :lol:

nshusa
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:52 am

Re: Updating Solus - Software Center

Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:56 am

I would like to see a major update to software center as well... It's really unappealing. I think we should go for more of an app store approach. It's just way easier for the user.

Some issues I see.
1. There is only 1 column of packages, so you have a ton of extra space that is not used. (There could be more columns of packages to fill that empty space)
2. The categories can be on the side and get to where you want in 1 click instead of 2 (e.g to get to web browsers "Internet Software" -> " Web Browsers"
3. The home page for the software store can be latest packages, highest rated packages etc currently having categories is unappealing
4. I don't like the idea of calling it "Software Center" if that's the case this distro is more aimed towards developers. Everyday users are used to the name "App" from Mac, Windows and Android already.. The non app packages are more aimed towards developers thus they can install via command-line.
5. Many packages don't have icons. (e.g firefox shows green package when it could show the firefox logo)

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kyrios
Posts: 2304
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:20 pm

Re: Updating Solus - Software Center

Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:30 am

nshusa wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:56 am
I would like to see a major update to software center as well... It's really unappealing. I think we should go for more of an app store approach. It's just way easier for the user.

Some issues I see.
1. There is only 1 column of packages, so you have a ton of extra space that is not used. (There could be more columns of packages to fill that empty space)
2. The categories can be on the side and get to where you want in 1 click instead of 2 (e.g to get to web browsers "Internet Software" -> " Web Browsers"
3. The home page for the software store can be latest packages, highest rated packages etc currently having categories is unappealing
4. I don't like the idea of calling it "Software Center" if that's the case this distro is more aimed towards developers. Everyday users are used to the name "App" from Mac, Windows and Android already.. The non app packages are more aimed towards developers thus they can install via command-line.
5. Many packages don't have icons. (e.g firefox shows green package when it could show the firefox logo)

Just check the Solus blog, there are a couple of posts about the new software center (The RoundUp #5 and The RoundUp #6).

Regarding your comment #4 : The Software Center does not only provides applications. It also provides libraries and it will provide drivers for example. Categories are there to split what you call everyday users stuffs from developers stuffs. Also keep in mind that after replacing Software by Application, the next step of the Apple marketing is to replace center by store which imply to put a price on items ;)

nshusa
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:52 am

Re: Updating Solus - Software Center

Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:16 am

kyrios wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:30 am
nshusa wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:56 am
I would like to see a major update to software center as well... It's really unappealing. I think we should go for more of an app store approach. It's just way easier for the user.

Some issues I see.
1. There is only 1 column of packages, so you have a ton of extra space that is not used. (There could be more columns of packages to fill that empty space)
2. The categories can be on the side and get to where you want in 1 click instead of 2 (e.g to get to web browsers "Internet Software" -> " Web Browsers"
3. The home page for the software store can be latest packages, highest rated packages etc currently having categories is unappealing
4. I don't like the idea of calling it "Software Center" if that's the case this distro is more aimed towards developers. Everyday users are used to the name "App" from Mac, Windows and Android already.. The non app packages are more aimed towards developers thus they can install via command-line.
5. Many packages don't have icons. (e.g firefox shows green package when it could show the firefox logo)

Just check the Solus blog, there are a couple of posts about the new software center (The RoundUp #5 and The RoundUp #6).

Regarding your comment #4 : The Software Center does not only provides applications. It also provides libraries and it will provide drivers for example. Categories are there to split what you call everyday users stuffs from developers stuffs. Also keep in mind that after replacing Software by Application, the next step of the Apple marketing is to replace center by store which imply to put a price on items ;)
I'm aware it provides libraries, but we could create a separate category specially for libraries then have the store more focused on apps which consist only of (appimage, flatpaks and snaps). I saw those blogs of the progress on the new software center but it still just doesn't look very appealing to me.

For example take a look at this image (From their latest blog about Software Center redesign)

Image

1. Categories could be on 1 row instead of 2.
2. There huge gaps for the "Recently updated" columns, we could fill up that space by adding 2 more columns or adding more columns depending on the size of the window just like in responsive web development.
3. I would rename "Gaming on Solus" to "Gaming" keep the naming convention short and simple as possible.
4. I would rename "Desktop Software & Theming" to "Theming" for same reason as #3
5. I would rename "Programming Language & Tools" to "Programming" for same reason as #3
6. I would rename "Multimedia & Graphics" to "Media" for same reason as #3
7. Why is there a need to say Software after every category? ("System Software", "Internet Software", "Office Software", "Security Software", "System Software") It's obvious its software because you're in the "Software Center" thus making it redundant

kendew
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:45 pm
Contact: Website

Re: Updating Solus - Software Center

Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:02 am

I would second a lot of the suggestions here. Simplicity is refreshing and no one should feel insulted because there is room for improvement. But I would also urge functionality. I am new to Solus but by no means to Linux, and I find eopkg problematic. I've tried installing Solus on a few computers recently and have had trouble because the Solus Mate 3 ISO requires a huge number of upgrades. I can live with this upgrade process taking hours, but eopkg will often just stop working and exit with an error if it can't manage a download at that moment. This once left the installation unusable. In fact, I resorted to using the software center so I could upgrade just a few packages at a time. A huge nuisance but didn't break the system.
I understand servers are expensive but this issue is enough to steer a lot of people away from an otherwise excellent distribution. Perhaps eopkg could be developed to handle this, so, for example, if one package is unresponsive to downloading for some reason, eopkg could move on to the next package and come back to the unresponsive one later rather than just exiting.
I like interfaces that are pleasant to the eye, easy to use and and to understand understand but the functionality under the hood is first in importance for me.

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kyrios
Posts: 2304
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:20 pm

Re: Updating Solus - Software Center

Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:03 am

kendew wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:02 am
I would second a lot of the suggestions here. Simplicity is refreshing and no one should feel insulted because there is room for improvement. But I would also urge functionality. I am new to Solus but by no means to Linux, and I find eopkg problematic. I've tried installing Solus on a few computers recently and have had trouble because the Solus Mate 3 ISO requires a huge number of upgrades. I can live with this upgrade process taking hours, but eopkg will often just stop working and exit with an error if it can't manage a download at that moment. This once left the installation unusable. In fact, I resorted to using the software center so I could upgrade just a few packages at a time. A huge nuisance but didn't break the system.
I understand servers are expensive but this issue is enough to steer a lot of people away from an otherwise excellent distribution. Perhaps eopkg could be developed to handle this, so, for example, if one package is unresponsive to downloading for some reason, eopkg could move on to the next package and come back to the unresponsive one later rather than just exiting.
I like interfaces that are pleasant to the eye, easy to use and and to understand understand but the functionality under the hood is first in importance for me.

The Software Center is nothing but a sophisticated GUI that runs on top of eopkg. It should not be used to workaround/mitigate issues in eopkg. You can also have issues by doing partial updates from the Software Center depending on what you select/unselect.
Eopkg issues should be addressed in eopkg itself or in "sol", its successor. And this is what is actually done as explained in the Roundup #9 (search for "Improved Resilience on Upgrades").

Regarding the speed, it mainly depends on the CDN capacity & points of presence.
Personally I regularely install new virtual machines from scratch to perform tests, and updating the system isn't painful. I recommand doing it from eopkg rather than from the Software Center since you see what is going on (and it is a little faster I believe).

kendew
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:45 pm
Contact: Website

Re: Updating Solus - Software Center

Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:53 am

The Software Center is nothing but a sophisticated GUI that runs on top of eopkg. It should not be used to workaround/mitigate issues in eopkg. You can also have issues by doing partial updates from the Software Center depending on what you select/unselect.
I get that, and I don't mean to hijack this thread with eopkg woes so I'll keep it brief. Thanks for the links. I read them and they are useful. I'm glad to hear Sol is in the works, assuming improvements to eopkg are part of the plan. I still find eopkg a problem and I'm worried that this could put off new users and give a bad initial impression of Solus since upgrading is what a lot of people do right after installation. But I'll try to put together a separate post about this. Solus has so much else going for it.

kiba999
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:48 am

Re: Updating Solus - Software Center

Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:45 am

My two Canadian half-cents:

Some observations on new installations of the GNOME edition of the original Solus 3 ISO -- if I used the GUI Software Center to upgrade, it would crash and fail and render the system unbootable every time, especially if I don't first deactivate auto-lock, which would immediately crash the process every time.

If, however, I first deactivated auto-locking, then did my first massive upgrade via Terminal, it would succeed 90% of the time.

I love Solus all the way to the ground, but I consider the current Software Center broken for big upgrades and generally unstable. Can't wait till it's all tidy!

sunnyflunk
Development Team
Posts: 3007
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:35 pm

Re: Updating Solus - Software Center

Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:56 am

kiba999 wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:45 am
My two Canadian half-cents:

Some observations on new installations of the GNOME edition of the original Solus 3 ISO -- if I used the GUI Software Center to upgrade, it would crash and fail and render the system unbootable every time, especially if I don't first deactivate auto-lock, which would immediately crash the process every time.

If, however, I first deactivated auto-locking, then did my first massive upgrade via Terminal, it would succeed 90% of the time.

I love Solus all the way to the ground, but I consider the current Software Center broken for big upgrades and generally unstable. Can't wait till it's all tidy!
There was some quite significant changes since the Solus 3 ISO. It's not simply the software centre. Things like usysconf, qol-assist, clr-boot-manager have enabled things like comar to be removed from package updates. This is the significant change that makes updates smooth after the initial update. Redoing the package manager will be another big step in making updates seamless. With the new ISO, there is no first update that gets rid comar anymore so I don't think updating via GUI will be an issue (provided it is a full update).

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